'Moving Forward': a conversation with Dale Boyer and Amanda Barker
Hmmmmm…. When this release about this production of ‘Clotheswap’ crossed my desk, I took another look at it. Here’s how the production is billed:
“Clotheswap. It’s a Show; it’s a swap. It’s both. Clotheswap invited members of the audience to bring bags of used clothing to serve as fodder for improv within the performance. After the performance, those garments were donated to ‘Sistering’ and ‘Dressed for Success’. Okay, this is different, that’s for sure.
‘Clotheswap’ examines the seams of empathy among women, the high cost of fast fashion, and the stories that women’s bodies tell. It was and is a show. The production is set in a soon to be sold mid century house where five women come together to swap their clothes and their truths. Different, but rather intriguing, that’s for sure.
I was also intrigued to learn that this production was one of the hits of the Toronto 2019 Fringe Festival from July 3-14, 2019 at the Textile Museum of Canada. ‘Clotheswap’ had plans to tour the country in 2020, but a little thing called Covid 19 changed those plans.
I invited Amanda Barker and Dale Boyer, the two writers and producers of this production to take part in the ‘Moving Forward’ series. I was really pleased when they agreed to take part in the interview.
At the conclusion of this profile, I’ll include information about their upcoming FREE PERFORMANCE of ‘Clotheswap’ that will take place this Friday November 27 online.
Thanks, Amanda and Dale, for getting in touch with me and for being a part of ‘Moving Forward’ in a post Covid world:
It has been an exceptionally long eight months since the pandemic began, and now the numbers are edging upward again. How are you feeling about this? Will we ever emerge to some new way of living in your opinion?
D: I am weirdly obsessed with all the medical breakthroughs that are happening as a result of fast-tracked vaccine approvals. I’ve even had my computer set up in the evenings with www.foldingathome.org to map protein structures to help the cause! If you have a fast computer, I suggest joining me!
I’ve been described as a cynic and an optimist at the same time soooo, I’m going to go with… it’s going to take longer than we think to get back to breathing on top of each other but I think as a result of this time, science will have new ways of curing illnesses beyond Covid in our lifetimes.
A: Well, Dale has been my covid “soothsayer” since day 1. We met in February at a brewery (seems like a sweet faraway dream!) and talked about writing goals. She had been talking about Covid over Christmas and her fears with it and brought it up again that day, briefly. We got on the phone the following week and, since I travel constantly with corporate acting, I let her know that my schedule was a bit busy - I had just come back from Florida for the second time this year and was headed to Utah that week. I told her - don’t worry - I am home for the rest of March and just have something in Nebraska mid April.
She told me that I probably wasn’t going to go and that none of us would likely be going anywhere come April. If it had been anyone else, I would have completely dismissed it but I know and trust her well enough and I knew she had been tracking this new virus since Christmas so she might actually be right. And then I would ask her predictions from time to time and she predicted exactly where we are now. Covid fast forwarded so much of the arts in some ways - we were video conferencing auditions and writing sessions already so I don’t think play readings like this one will be going anywhere, like it or not.
How have you been faring? How has your immediate family been doing during these last eight months?
D: My family has immuno-suppressed people in it so as a result I’ve been basically in lockdown since March. We are doing well; our house has become a complete machine 24-7. We had to make a studio in our house for auditions and recordings, we are fortunate to have the smallest little space to do that. I miss swimming laps at the YMCA. I was really hitting my groove when all this started!
A: In this current moment, it’s not a good scene for me! I didn’t realize how much I needed/relied on travel. Getting on an airplane is a huge part of my life - this day last year I was swimming in the Persian Gulf on the coast of Bahrain. My siblings live in Halifax, my parents live in Florida. It’ll be a year in December since I have seen any of them. None of our friends can bubble with us.
I would give anything to hug my mom again and I don’t know when that is going to happen. I have always been intrigued (ok maybe obsessed) with World War 2 and the effects it had on that generation. This is ours, trying to give up freedoms and conveniences for the greater good. It's the right medicine and it tastes awful and I am a little kid crying. It will be stamped onto our souls forever and years from now, the grandkids will make fun of their grandparents who are obsessive with hand sanitizer and having enough toilet paper.
As an artist within the performing arts community, what has been the most difficult and challenging for you professionally and personally?
D: Personally, I really miss seeing all the extra people I see in a day who I wouldn’t consider my closest friends but would see weekly. Professionally I flip-flop between feeling like I am not doing enough and doing too much and feeling immediately burnt out. I’ve been working online in social media for many years professionally, so my two worlds are coming together at last! Art and making online tech super consumable and above all EASY to access. Mourning my lost contracts this summer was hard.
A: I immediately lost a movie, but I was lucky enough to film two other films this year with heavy covid restrictions in place of course. We are still in this learning curve with the work I do as an actor auditioning, in casting and in corporate role play. Most people haven’t figured out yet that if you only give people a zoom link (rather than a meeting ID) it will only show the last screen name you had and you can’t change it. Seems like a small piece of the puzzle, but I have to change my name to various characters and then I am not getting let into the audition room because they don’t know who “Diana” is or whatever the last role I played was. So many zoom glitches like that and people just haven’t figured it out yet!
Were you in preparation, rehearsals, or any planning stages of productions before everything was shut down? What has become of those projects? Will they see the light of day anytime soon?
D: Amanda Barker and I had great live theatre and community clothing swap plans for Clotheswap which have now had to be adapted to any online reading during our 2nd lockdown in Toronto. I have no doubt that because of Covid we were able to get our original cast to come back to rehearse and read, they are all far too busy getting booked on shows to have returned to us!
I had a few tv show roles to reprise and they were cancelled for 2020, I can’t see those returning. I had a directing job that I was really excited for that was going to lead into an even larger project in 2021… that’s all on hold.
A: Our show is particularly hit because of our direct contact with the audience’s clothes!!! Its been a hard one to pivot with. This is us doing the best we can and finding some joy and bringing some joy to “Sistering” in the process. Producing this reading has been like producing a play underwater - that’s the best way I can describe it. The people you need for contracts at Equity are on severely truncated hours and it can take days to get a simple task done. We will put it live into a link and hope that someone hears it and watches it. It feels like being underwater but that’s going to have to be ok - we refuse to sink ;) Personally I had a film on the horizon working with an Oscar nominated director and writer and though my role would have had me there for a day or two, that was put on “hold" on Friday March 13th and there it remains…
What have you been doing to keep yourself busy during this time?
D: I manage social media content for a few art exhibits in Toronto and in the United States that have been open throughout the pandemic. These large-scale art projects are very popular so I’ve been fortunate to expand my time writing and creating content there while I have been performing/directing less.
A: Honestly, Dale is the busiest person I know at this time! Well the first thing I did was apply for a bunch of grants - if there was a grant I was applying! We were lucky to be chosen for Canada Council’s Digital Originals and it allows us to pay a team of 5 actors, 1 director, 1 Stage Manager, 1 PR person and 1 ASL interpreter and for that I am pretty proud.
I am American so I watched far far too much CNN election coverage for months. Because I am super task oriented, I made an alphabetical list of TV shows and have been going through it, making sure I watch a show that starts with each letter. I’ll just leave that craziness there!
I also have picked up some work assisting with all of the self tape/Zoom commercial castings that are happening now - watching self tapes, being a zoom reader - and a lot of my corporate role play has pivoted to online. I am quite afraid it will never go back to being in person! That said, I am grateful for any and all work that has come my way. It is about a third of what it once was but I’m happy for it!
The other project I’ve taken on is something I have started with my husband Marco Timpano and one of my dear friends Bil Antoniou - its a podcast called “Born on This Day” which highlights the traits of people born on each day, the random celebrations that happen on that day and all the incredible performers who have their birthday on that day. I invite you to listen anywhere you listen to podcasts!
Any words of wisdom or advice you might /could give to fellow performers and colleagues? What message would you deliver to recent theatre school graduates who have now been set free into this unknown and uncertainty?
D: I am nowhere I thought I would be when I graduated university. I never imagined I’d be a published playwright. Creating and writing content to be read by over a billion people worldwide was unimaginable. All these unusual adaptations I’ve made over the years have come together for this time of change. I’d say to all artists now, find a way to nourish your art, it may not be what you imagined, it may turn out even better, it may turn out like garbage but at least you’ll know!
Also, if you are auditioning online right now, find a friend and an afternoon to work on your set up, small tweaks can go a long way from the casting side of things.
A: Whatever you do, don’t play the “when this is over, then I will work” game. When I moved to this city it was 2000. The first “busy” season wasn’t because of Sept 11th. The next wasn’t because of Sars. The next wasn’t because of the writers’ strike. And so it went, and the lesson I learned is it will never be busy actually so you will make your own opportunity.
I am a huge believer of momentum - and you will make your own. Once you are doing your own work - yes even a reading online - it will create more ideas, juices, opportunity. Work begets work. An inactive thing will stay inactive or whatever Newton said. Or Einstein. I don’t know those aren’t my people.
You know who is my people? Frida Kahlo. She had no choice but to lay in bed for months and still she created. Still she persisted. So must you, always. And one day it will be “busy” season and it will actually feel like it. But until that, persist.
Do you see anything positive stemming from Covid 19?
D: I hope to see Canadian theatres take more risks and use this time online to amplify voices outside their little circles. I can see Canadian theatres using their already established social media audiences to help artists with such minimal cost to the theatres during the time. It’s a big big world and there are wonderful artists that could be highlighted right now for very little financial risk to theatres.
A: Nope. But I hope to. I really do.
Do you think Covid 19 will have some lasting impact on theToronto/Canadian/North American performing arts scene?
D: I think insurance is going to be a problem. I think we are losing performance spaces quickly. My hope is that our associations allow for some creative thinking to evolve and find our footing.
A: Maybe I wasn’t fair in my last question - let me say this. I hit a creative and professional ceiling and burned out about 10 years ago and decided to take a few months off to do Yoga training and become a Yoga teacher, which supported me as an actor for many years financially but the teachings support me on a daily basis.
One of the things one of my teachers - Ted Grand - used to say was “burn it down, build it back up”. No sacred cows. Press the reset button. And we don’t want to ever because it feels so uncomfortable but sometimes, we must. So, I do think we are in a process of burning it down and building it back up. And that fits the World War 2 analogy too. We will only be stronger in the end for doing so.
Nothing gold can stay. I think I will just answer in euphemisms and metaphors from here on in!
Some artists have turned to YouTube and online streaming to showcase their work. What are your comments and thoughts about streaming? Is this something that the actor/theatre may have to utilize going forward into the unknown?
D: Streaming is everything at the moment. There is no “may have to utilize” in my opinion, most artists I know are already using it. But I would say, streaming doesn’t have to look like everyone else, and it doesn’t have to look like theatre. We can do anything we want with it so let’s take risks.
A: Yes, and the unions are doing their best to let us but right now it is very cost prohibitive - this simple Equity reading needs contracts from both ACTRA and EQUITY now and that’s a challenge. That said, there is no way around it. We have to perform on the stage that is offered, not the one we want. Currently, that is the only one on offer.
Despite all this fraught tension and confusion, what is it about performing that Covid will never destroy for you?
D: Working together with someone during a performance is beautiful. I saw the TSO in the park a few weeks ago and cried, I saw an art exhibit with composed music and cried, if you know me I am not usually the one crying! Whether I am sitting in the audience or standing onstage, being together with other people feeling something is everything for me and I know and I will seek it out for the rest of my life, I know it.
A: When I moved to Toronto my motto was “I will be an actor. I will write. I will create. Or I will die trying”. I am from New Brunswick - I know what a long-isolated winter looks like. I just never thought I would experience one living downtown. But I gave up so much just to live here all those years ago and now it translates into giving up so much more.
Last night as I was falling asleep these words from Picasso drifted into my mind and now, I know why because it sums it up beautifully. I’ll let him have the last word here: “The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away”.
Photo credit: Bryan Cacciatore
On Friday, November 27th, the Government of Canada has provided a grant to have this show as a performed reading online. The show will be FREE.
In lieu of an actual clothes swap there will be a talk back discussion following the show to discuss:
- Clothes Swaps / donating clothing in the age of Covid and making masks from used clothing.
This event will also try to shine the light on a specific charity https://sistering.org/
For further information about this free online event, please visit the website: www.clotheswapshow.ca.